Declan Kelly: Jason Roach is the man. He’s the General Manager at OuttaBounds, which you hear us talking about a lot, and we’ve been giving away those wonderful vouchers, which are always much sought after.
It’s Wednesday morning. I’m sure he’s down there at OuttaBounds. As I say, a very good morning to Jason. How are you, Jason?
Jason Roach: Yeah, good morning, Declan. How are you going?
Declan: Very well. Been a couple of weeks since we spoke, and I think it’s been in the ether a little bit. I’m speaking of LIV Golf, with what’s happening in this mad world.
I don’t think it’s overly surprising that the Saudi Arabian Investment Fund has got its eyes and thoughts elsewhere, closer to home, and has decided not to renew a very lucrative sponsorship at LIV Golf. And as a result, it seems to be just limping through.
What’s your take on LIV Golf to date and the future, if there is a future for LIV Golf, Jason?
Jason: Yeah, it’s going to be interesting. It was pretty disappointing that they cancelled their final event and just held their last event of the season, which concluded last weekend in Indianapolis. That was a bit of a shame to hear.
In regard to what’s happening with that event, I think the goalposts are changing daily.
I tried to wrap my head around a little bit of what’s happening there and what LIV Golf 2.0 is going to look like. I’m optimistic. I’ll believe it when I see it, but I believe that an investor has put in something between $250 million and $350 million for the show to go on with LIV.
But we’ll see what that looks like, what the schedule looks like, the seasons.
Obviously, though, if it does continue to go ahead, there will be another event in Adelaide next year. But the big question mark is, what are the fields going to look like? Is it going to have these big names, your Jon Rahms, your Tyrrell Hattons, et cetera?
So, yeah, let’s watch that space on that one because, obviously, with the music and the walkout songs for the players when they go to tee off, Jon Rahm and Tyrrell Hatton both played “I Want to Be Free”.
So, yeah, it could be interesting. Who knows?
LIV Golf, obviously, in Australia has been really, really good for golfers and younger generations getting into the game. And obviously, the LIV Golf Adelaide event was their most successful event that they held around the world.
That being said, I understand it is business at the end of the day. And with the PIF fund pulling out their investment dollars, to attract these big names and create great competition, you have to spend the money and attract these good golfers.
But it sounds like there’s a few of them. We’ve obviously seen already with Patrick Reed and a few others who have said they will not be renewing and they’ll be paying their fines.
Brooks Koepka is another one, a major champion, who has gone back to the PGA Tour and paid the $25 million fine and everything else that comes with that.
But yeah, it’s really watch this space. Who knows? That ecosystem is changing daily.
So, I don’t have a full understanding of it yet. The next day, it’s completely different again.
Declan: Now, just interested in your thoughts. If you’ve just joined us, a very good morning. Jason Roach is on the line, the man we turn to in the world of golf, be it the big stuff, just talking about a lazy $25 million fine, or if you’re just a weekend hacker.
The game of golf is thriving. We talked about that previously, Jason, probably even with Colbert, the amount of people now, men, women, old, young, playing the game. And you would see it at your venue, which we’ll talk about in a minute.
I just wanted to ask you, I knew I was talking to you today, and I was just looking through the calendar of events.
Now, the British Masters is due to start tomorrow, and then there’s a raft of tournaments going into September.
You’ve been a golf professional, and I think when we think golf professionals, we think private jets, we think Rory McIlroy and the like, these wonderful lifestyles they afford at the top of the game.
But how does professional golf work in the sense that I look at a host of tournaments in Europe, and then, of course, across the pond in the United States, North America, a heap of tournaments. Then, of course, there’s the Asian Tour.
All in all, as a golf professional, where you’re almost working at the bottom of the food chain from tournament to tournament, hopefully getting a little bit of sponsorship, how do these guys and girls go about it?
Is it just managing their funds and trying to eke out a living on the tours and deciding what part of the world they’re going to try and get to the top of the game? How does all that work?
Jason: Yeah, certainly. Well, first and foremost, to turn professional and to get onto these tours, you have to earn your way to a tour card.
So you go through what they call Q School, or Qualifying School.
You’ve got to go through a process with that where, depending on where it’s played and which tour you’re trying to get on around the world, that could be two different stages.
Stage one, they would play six rounds, make a cut. A certain amount of people would go to stage two.
And then the final results in those six rounds would determine what their exemption status is, whether they earn a full card for that tour so they get access into all of the events on that tour for the year.
And then working down pro rata to those who didn’t do so well, they might get some category exemptions where they might get access to three or four events for the year.
So the quality of golfers that are going to tour school and going through these stages is extremely high. And that’s just the start of it.
That requires significant investment, practice, having a full team around you just to get through Qualifying School.
From there, once you get your tour card, it’s based on money lists.
And your money list will determine, at the end of the year, the certain amount of people who will go through and have a guaranteed card for next year.
Below that line, you need to go back to Qualifying School to have your job again on that same tour.
And that varies in skill levels all around the world.
We’ve obviously got the PGA Tour of Australasia here in Australia. And then you have your Asian Tour. You start going into some of your bigger tours, your Asian Tour, your DP World Tour over in Europe, and then obviously the PGA Tour, which is based in America.
So it is very expensive to get just to that stage.
And then from there, you’re really relying on endorsement deals. You’re relying on sponsors to help you get through week to week because, obviously, you’ve still got travel expenses. You’re flying all around the globe.
A lot of the time, it’s just not you, it’s the rest of your team as well.
You could be with your coach or with your sports psychologist. You’ve got this whole team, dietitians, nutritionists, fitness, everyone. You’ve got a full team of people there behind you that are with you every single step of the way.
And it’s just so difficult.
You hear about the Rory McIlroys and the Tigers and the superyachts and the private jets and all of that sort of thing. Yes, that is the ultimate.
However, you see so many good golfers who are below that line, who you don’t hear about, who are literally struggling week to week just to get enough money to get themselves to the next tournament.
And that’s following the exemptions that they’ve gone through at tour school or Q School.
So it’s one of those ones, if you’ve ever watched the series on Netflix, it’s called Full Swing.
They’re into their fifth or fourth season now, sorry. And you see there’s a guy there, Ben Griffin, who had battled on the PGA Tour for all of these years.
He’d racked up, I think, nearly $100,000 US in credit card debt just to get to these tournaments.
He had a sponsor come on. He’d finished golf and started working for an investment group.
His boss said, “No, you’re too good at golf to be working here. We’re going to provide travel for you for a year.”
So he took that opportunity with both hands.
All of a sudden, he had a couple of wins on the PGA Tour. He’s now got all these exemptions for a few years, making lots and lots of money.
But if he hadn’t been given that opportunity to take off the financial stress and burden of trying to get from tournament to tournament, he would have been another extremely talented golfer who you would have never seen or never heard of again.
So it requires a lot of money, a lot of assistance.
But once you do get to the top and you’re playing consistently, you earn your cards, you have your victories. With your victories, obviously, you get exemptions into certain tournaments, so you don’t have to play your way into these tournaments.
It is very good, but it is extremely difficult for 99.9% of golfers, even on the tour, to be able to get to that level where they are financially stable, to be able to just focus on their golf and their golf only, rather than all the adversity they face with life’s challenges.
Declan: Very well answered.
On the Retrovision text line, interested in Jason’s thoughts, Graham from Kingsley.
“We know golf is thriving at amateur and the lower levels, but at the professional level, I believe we’re at an all-time low in Australia. We’ve no major competitors on the European Tour, on the US PGA Tour, only Min Woo and Jason Day, who is in the twilight of his career,” says Graham.
“Our presence in the majors is at an all-time low.”
Can and will this change in the foreseeable future, Jason?
Jason: Yes, I believe so.
We have a lot of, and let’s understand how golf has grown, not just in Australia, but globally.
We had a great run there, obviously, with Greg Norman all those years ago. You had your Peter Thomsons. We have had a great run for a large amount of time.
It’s more important to understand these up-and-comers. When you talk about your Adam Scott, your Jason Day, your Min Woo Lee, it’s the next generation in behind them that are the ones to look for.
We’ve got the programs in Australia. We’ve got the quality. It’s just getting the opportunities for them to have that one breakout event to get themselves onto the main tours and then maintain that consistency.
Obviously, we’re so far away from home. A lot of people do get homesick over in Europe and America as well.
Very different challenges of golf courses.
You’ve obviously seen The Open Championship, where they’re playing the links golf courses, higher winds, et cetera.
Then you go to America, which is a very different game of golf. There’s not as much run, different grasses, different greens, et cetera.
It’s finding that balance between all of the courses, especially globally, and having accessibility to those courses.
I think there are some very, very talented juniors going through the system, and especially guys that, in golf, as they say, don’t hit their peak until they’re about 30.
We do have some guys coming through, especially younger juniors into their early 20s, who will give it a shake in time.
They’ve just got to get that experience, being away on tour, playing against the best golfers in the world and plying their trade on a more consistent basis.
You’ve obviously got Cameron Smith, who has gone off the boil a little bit of late since joining LIV.
We’ve still got Cameron Davis over there. He’s won on the PGA Tour. He’s always a contender there.
Then we’ve seen even people like Cameron John, who has won on the Australian Tour, won a couple of Webex Players Series events, goes over, gets a start in the British Open, makes the cut and finishes in the top 20.
He would have been a name in Australia where not too many people… He’s won events, but he’s not a global name.
He goes into a major championship at the British Open, and then all of a sudden, he’s contending at an event and finishes the top-ranked Australian for that event.
You’ve got Elvis Smylie as well, who is in the top 150 in the world at the moment.
The guy is young. He must be 20… I want to say 22, 21, 22.
Very, very talented from Queensland, ranked in the top 150 in the world.
He is on the LIV Tour with the Ripper GC team at the moment, but has won on the European Tour as well.
Very, very talented. It’s a name to look out for.
Who knows what’s going to happen with LIV as well, but if Elvis does get onto either the European Tour or the PGA Tour, he’s certainly a name to look out for in the future as well.
Declan: And a great name as well, and from a family of sporting greats, be it tennis, but sport runs in the genes there.
As we finish up, Jason, you are not just a PGA Golf Professional, you’re a General Manager.
We’ve been talking about it all year, OuttaBounds Golf.
I can’t sing enough praises about it because I’ve actually been there.
Open seven days a week, from novices through to professionals and all in between, from toddlers with mini golf and families right through to senior citizens.
Great food, great drink.
How’s it all going? It’s at 24 Baker Court, North Lake, just off Farrington Road. You’ll see the signs there.
How’s life going at OuttaBounds, Jason?
Jason: Yeah, it’s been really good. Been really busy as always.
We’re just in the process now, currently, of installing a new beer garden that will be attached to the side of the building.
So it’ll be undercover, big massive TVs. You’ll have a 360-degree view to massive TVs.
It’ll be undercover. We’ll have all the lighting. We’ll have the fans there for summer. We’ll have the heaters there for winter.
And yeah, really, really good opportunity to go through, have a whack or even come down and watch some live sport, have a bite to eat, have a couple of beers with your friends and socialise and really enjoy the atmosphere that we do have here at the facility.
So we’ve just gone through, since we last spoke, all the end-of-financial-year functions and parties.
We’re still seeing, today obviously it’s a bit overcast and a bit wet, people have decided against going on a golf course and decided to stay nice and warm and dry. So the facility is busy again.
And yeah, we start heading towards September.
So we’ve got obviously the AFL finals coming up as well. A lot of people like to come down and watch live sport whilst they’re out with their families and friends.
And then school holidays coming up.
So obviously, as the weather starts to warm up a little bit as well, the mini golf is going to be extremely popular.
But as the driving range stays outside, and the indoor simulators and the augmented reality darts, they’re always a popular option regardless of the weather.
So exciting times coming up, and yeah, it’ll be really exciting.
The new beer garden is expected to be done within the month. So it’ll be in time for the AFL Grand Final.
And certainly, if you haven’t been here before, it’s just continuing to upgrade and improve the currently existing facilities we have.
They’re exceptional, and we just continue to raise the bar in all forms of the facility.
Declan: Well, it’ll be rude for me not to come down. I’ll be heading down.
It’s open seven days a week.
OuttaBounds, O-U-T-T-A, Bounds, all one word, outtabounds.com.au.
Jason Roach, you’ll see him around, the General Manager, and always chatting to people.
Jason, as always, the gift certificate you gave us, the amount of entries we get week in, week out is sensational.
So a lot of people have heard about it but haven’t tried it.
I’d urge you to go down. It’s well worth the journey for work reunions or get-togethers, family get-togethers and all of the above.
Always appreciate your time. You’re always available, and thanks once again this morning.
Jason: No problem at all, Declan. Thank you.
